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The Summit

MountainViews newsletter for guestuser

Oct 2019


  International PIC OF THE MONTH

NORTH, SOUTH, WEST, EAST, MIDLANDS, ANDORRA, Route ideas and places to go.

Challenge Walks The Hardy Annuals.

Women list finishers Two women finishers on long lists.

Conversations Gerard and a farmer.

Surveying the mountains Hillwalkers getting and using accurate data for navigation.

Two videos featured this month Tough Soles, mcritchly/kernowclimber


MOUNTAINVIEWS: Hillwalkers' Events

If you are interested in joining us or have ideas about further walks, perhaps leading one, contact Liz at

MOUNTAIN MEITHEAL: Mountain Meitheal are keen to find more people to help.

Mountain Meitheal make practical repairs to some of the more popular areas we walk on, using a voluntary community based approach. (More information at their website.)

 Picture of the month

A picture taken from Aghla Beg

For original summit, click here.

Photo: ochils_trekker

Correction. Last month's POTM should have been credited to Una Campbell.

International Pic of the Month

A route up the Pique d'Endron (2472m in the Pyrenees) which requires a bit of easy scrambling on the final arête

For original track, click here.

Photo: David Guenot

In short: Discovery

Featured Track of the Month
Devilsmother Courage
Some of the very finest views to be had in Ireland are from the ridge of the Devilsmother, over the spectacular inlet of Killary Harbour. This month's selection from Geo provides possibly the shortest approach to this magnificent promenade, tackling head-on this mountain's notoriously steep slopes. (See also his summit comment on Devilsmother North Top).

Geo on Devilsmother ridge from N59
Main walk Start: 08:47, End: 12:44, Duration: 3h56m, Length: 10.1km, Ascent: 695m, Descent: 711m
Places: Start at L91267 65080, Devilsmother Far North Top, Devilsmother North Top, Devilsmother, end at Start (statistics such as Ascent or Length etc should be regarded as approximate. Duration depends on the speed of the person making the track)

NORTH: A walk on the wild side.
A circuit of the Aghlas in Donegal by ochils_trekker proved to be a rewarding day of solitude and scenery, with not even a human footprint to be seen.
ochils_trekker on Aghla Beg, (An Eachla Bheag): The Aghlas Circuit
I walked these twin tops, along with Aghla More as a circular route, in early September 2019, parking across the road from the fish farm near Procklis Lough( B9360 2580 ).Walking N on the road to the top of the rise I saw a route across open land, but with a farm fence on the right. I started here, keeping close to the fence, which starts to rise.Shortly a gate is reached and crossed. Carry on br ... ... Click here ...

NORTH: Snow Patrol
There's always the off chance that the complete breakdown of our climate might still see fit to give Ireland some winter conditions in the upcoming months. With that in mind, aidy has uploaded a memory of a day of wondrous, crisp conditions earlier this year in the Sperrins. His route up Mullaghash is of the there-and-back variety, but the walk can be extended southwards to take in the reasonably adjacent summits of Barnes Top and Knockanbane Mountain.
Aidy on Mullaghash in the snow
I took advantage of the snow to take a trip to Mullaghash in the Sperrins, looking for something relatively easy. Littl| walk, Len: 4.4km, Climb: 339m, Area: Mullaghash, Sperrin Mountains (Ireland) ... Click here ...

WEST: Shapely summit welcomes bootless buffoon
Although he had an enjoyable hike up Bireencorragh in the Nephin Begs, member wicklore recommends always putting 'bring boots' at the top of your reminder list!
wicklore on Birreencorragh, (Birín Corrach): Shapely summit welcomes bootless buffoon
This is a view of the rather shapely upper slopes of Birreencorragh as viewed from the col to the south west. In particular, the photo was taken from near spot height 587 meters. From this point it is a 111 meters haul up to the summit over a distance of circa 400 metres. The slope is a mixture of scree and patches of grass at first, and gets quite steep and rocky for the last 50 metres ascent. .. ... ... Click here ...

WEST:Lucky Friday 13th for some
So distracted by the stupendous, vertiginous and crazily beautiful views around Devilsmother North Top, that Geo fears he will lose his footing and his life!
Geo on Devilsmother North Top, (Binn Gharbh barr thuaidh): Friday 13th... Lucky for me!
A crisp early morning in September. The mist shimmering over the lakelets as I drive the winding road north from my base in Roundstone. A night of fitful sleep the night before worrying through the walk ahead as I face what I know are steep unforgiving slopes protecting the Dam of Satan and her offspring. I need not have worried. I park in the little layby hugging the edge of the N59, backing ... ... Click here ...

Featured summit comment

Back In The High Life Again

by Wicklore

Hillwalking can be an all-consuming obsession, or it can be something one dips in and out of as and when life or motivation allows. Or it can be a mixture of both. And so it is that it's great to see some new contributions from Wicklore, MV's former Secretary and all-round good egg. His contributions to the site are many and varied; for instance if you make use of the Island lists then you're walking in the shadows of a vast amount of late-night poring over spreadsheets by the man himself. And very few folk illustrate the notion of Summiteering as being more than just ticking off tops than this man.

So this month's selected comment is a happy nod to his new contributions; using a visit to Ben Creggan South Top as a start rather than a destination, he muses on the wisdom (or otherwise) of using the performance and comfort of others as a benchmark for yourself.

Are you slower than a Victorian Mountaineer?

Or perhaps the question should be, are you carrying a camera?

When one peruses these august pages, one could be forgiven for feeling inadequate when learning that Hillwalker A only took an hour to reach this peak, or Hillwalker B completed X walk in 2 hours. And God forbid you should dare to look at the statistics for some of the gps tracks (At over 2500 MV easily has the biggest repository in the country). Seeing that Hillwalker Y or Z walked for 48km non-stop results in a sharp intake of breath or an explosive exhalation (often simultaneously with curious results)

In 1892 William W. Naismith devised a guide that became known as Naismith’s Rule. In metric terms it states one should allow 12 minutes for every km of distance plus 10 minutes for every 100 metres of ascent. For those like me who have found themselves mentally counting the contour lines as you gasp your way up some hellish incline, it means that you add on one minute for each contour line you will cross.

Between Naismith and Hillwalkers X, Y & Z I have come to realise my own pace doesn’t necessarily match up with convention. My speed of putting one foot in front of the other is reasonable enough, however the time taken to get from A to B is longer. This only increases the more dramatic the location of the walk or the more beautiful the scenery.

And so on my recent first-time visit to Ben Creggan I found the curse of Hillwalker Z struck again. The Honourable Gentleman suggested 1 hour 45 minutes to reach the South Top via Ben Creggan from the east. Yet 2 hours later found me still languishing somewhere on the upper reaches of the approach to Ben Creggan. The South Top was like a mirage that retreated with every step I took.

Oh I completed the hike alright, and I even found a new way down by descending from the col between Ben Gorm and Creggan South Top into the Glendavock Valley. However it all just served to remind me that ‘time taken’ is a very individual thing, and that each person should also factor in the myriad of times they will stop for 10 seconds for a photo, gaze at the views or simply catch their breath. For example I spent considerable time studying the fault line mentioned by Simon3 in his post on Ben Creggan. I also took copious photos of the views which easily accounted for an hour of my hike.

I can only add that the hike was amazing, views were outstanding and the feeling of accomplishment was very satisfactory. Similar to the divergence between my hike speed and my contemporaries is the divergence between my comfort on steep ground and theirs. I would describe the final approaches to Ben Creggan as requiring care and concentration in places, and even the route up to the more benign South Top was very steep in places even though it is mostly grass with some patches of scree. Naismith and others might complete such routes much more quickly, but it’s ok to take longer too.

SOUTH: Knockmealdown with a feather...
The southern slopes of the higher Knockmealdowns are generally eschewed by the walker in favour of approaches from the north and west. chelman7 has visited the summit of Knocknafallia from this direction, and his route could be used as a kicking off point for a fuller traverse of the range for pedestrians with transport; other than that it would be easy to include Knockmeal if a return on foot to the starting point was mandatory.
chelman7 on Knocknafallia from Mount Melleray
| walk, Len: 11.9km, Climb: 455m, Area: Knocknafallia, Knockmealdown Mountains (Ireland) Knocknafallia ... Click here ...

SOUTH: Walking with the dead.
Cork's tiny Rocky Island is mostly taken up with a crematorium, but next to it is a 15m rock that marks the high point. Just don't clash with a funeral, says Pepe.
Pepe on Rocky Island, (Oileán Cathail): Practise your Rock-climbing Skills
The road from Ringaskiddy to the naval base at Haulbowline crosses Rocky Island. If visiting, bear in mind that Rocky Island is no ordinary island: it is the site of the Cork crematorium. The crematorium and attendant parking facilities take up the bulk of the surface area. The problem for island peak-baggers is that the high point is so adjacent to the crematorium it juts up like a miniature moun ... ... Click here ...

SOUTH-WEST: The Saint's Road
conorb has had a dander along a decent wodge of St Finbarr's Pilgrim's Way down in the south-west. His tactics involved some clever shenanigans with a bike to eliminate the need for a second car, and with the start gained on two wheels, the walk follows the well marked path back up north over hills, forests and bogs to Gougane. His uploaded track has a brief diversion to take in the locally dominant summit of Conigar; those wishing to include more hilltops will have to gird their loins and head north rather than east from that peak.
conorb on Pilgrim's Way
Pilgrim's Way Waymarked route which includes short detours for Knockbreteen and Conigar. I dropped my car in Gougane and| walk, Len: 19.7km, Climb: 792m, Area: Knockbreteen, Shehy/Knockboy (Ireland) ... Click here ...

SOUTH: I took the path less travelled by…
During his ascent of Conigar in Cork, conorb decided to heed poet Robert Frost's advice and take a detour from the normal well-trodden path.
conorb on Conigar, (An Coinigéar): Detour from Slí Bharra
Got to Conigar by taking a detour off the well marked Slí Bharra waymarked route above Lough Naman. It was a little soft underfoot in places but a relatively straightforward way to make your way to the cairn at the top. After reaching the peak, we rejoined the waymarked route near Lough Fada and Lough Namral. ... Click here ...

EAST: Scoring the century
Finishing a list is always rewarding, even when the final summit isn't too exciting, as Colin Murphy discovered when ascending Tonduff E, his final Local 100.
Colin Murphy on Tonduff East Top, (Tóin Dubh soir barr): My final Local 100
Not the most glamorous of summits, but of personal significance as it marked my 100th and last Local 100! Having spent the summer frantically bagging the smaller tops, it was nice to finish on a glorious September day with not a cloud in the sky and temperatures about 20 deg C. Roll on the Arderin Begs and Carns! ... Click here ...

EAST: End of the Line
march-fixer has been out for a long languid ramble down in Wicklow, following a disused railway track to the ascent of Muskeagh Hill before a lengthy undulating route through woodlands brings you back to the start. There's a decent amount of up-and-down without there being any particularly long climbs included, although those in desperate need of extra uphill effort could conceivably include Ballycumber Hill along the way.
march-fixer on Tinahealy Circuit
This is a very nice circular circuit which starts and ends in a pleasant carpark. The route heads westwards out along a | walk, Len: 24.0km, Climb: 866m, Area: Muskeagh Hill, Dublin/Wicklow (Ireland) ... Click here ...

EAST: Birds of a feather
Colin Murphy enjoys the spectacle of multiple birds of prey repeatedly swooping to the heather on Table Mountain West and taking flight again.
Colin Murphy on Table Mountain West Top, (Pollaghdoo): Bird's eye view
As I reached the summit of this top on a gorgeous September day, I could see about 5 dark birds circling above and swooping to the heather every now and then, so I assume they were birds of prey of some sort. I posted on Facebook looking for suggestions to the species and among the suggestions were buzzards, ravens, falcons (don't think so!), hawks and corvids. Take your pick! It shall remain a my ... ... Click here ...

MIDLANDS: Only one way up ...
Thanks to the apparent closure of the quarry beneath Taghart South in Cavan, the only practical way to access the summit is through the quarry gate, says TommyMc.
TommyMc on Taghart South: Only one way up
The only practical way to access this hill is from near the locked quarry gates on the road in front of it. I attempted it across the fields and scrub to the north via the adjacent masts, and the combination of furze, long grass, brambles and the odd wet ditch made for an unpleasant walk that I couldn't recommend to anyone. On the bright side, quarrying seems to have permanently ceased on the ... ... Click here ...

ANDORRA: 'I've been on holiday'. 'Andorra?' 'No, she didn't come along'
The Pyrenees stretch across the width of Europe along the Franco-Spanish border, and in their midst lies the principality of Andorra (a land where your track reviewer spent a horrendous skiing holiday in his youth). David-Guenot has uploaded a track illustrating the ascent of its highest mountain, the Alt de Comapedrosa. It's a rough old route with some easy scrambling and lots of rough ground, but the glacial scenery surrounding it looks rather nice.
David-Guenot on Alt de Comapedrosa
Visiting Alt de Comapedrosa, the highpoint of Andorra at 2942m, with a friend from Wales. Actual total ascent ca. 1420m.| walk, Len: 15.7km, Climb: 1558m, Area: Andorra, La Massana () ... Click here ...

Sorry if we didn't mention what you posted .. there's a list of all contributors for recent month(s) later.


Volunteering for 2019: Strengthening the MountainViews Committee

Currently we have a number of officers on the committee such as chairperson, secretary etc. We really could use some further committee members to achieve our strategic goals and spread the load.
Position In Brief
Ordinary members For those taking an interest in the MV committee or indeed committees in general we can also use some further "regular" committee members without a specific role. There are many smaller quite finite projects that might suit regular members.
Publicity MountainViews is a great resource based on over 1300 people's contributions over 16 years. Great that is if you have heard of it. And that's where we could use some practical publicity help.
The Geeks Shall Inherit the Earth Quite apart from programmers, MV's progress can also use help from people who can really follow through on tasks like creating lists, checking stats, researching place names or geology. Whether on the committee or not we value such people's contributions.

Contact us at admin -at-

Two women complete long Irish lists

Women completing Irish Summits Lists.


Liz Ashton

Elizabeth Ashton has become the first woman to visit the summit of all the Vandeleur-Lynams, the 273 mountains in Ireland of 600m or more height with a prominence of at least 15m.

She achieved this in June 2019.  Elizabeth is a member of the committee and has been visiting V-L summits since 2008.

Our congratulations to Elizabeth, known as ‘liz50’ on

Christine Gordon

Another female first has also been announced for a completion of the Irish summits contained in the Paddy Dillon book “The Mountains of Ireland” which includes 212 peaks.  This is Christine Gordon who completed visiting the summits on 20th May 2019.

Christine believes additionally that she is the first woman to climb all the 2000 footers in Britain and Ireland.

Our congratulations to Christine who visited her Irish list from Oct 2017 to May 2019.  Elizabeth Ashton said of this achievement “Have to say Christine sounds amazing”.

Comparing the Vandeleur-Lynam and Paddy Dillon lists.

The Paddy Dillon list was published in 1992 as a list of 2000 footers (609.6m) by Cicerone the prestigious UK walking guide publisher.  The final basis for selection of summits was that of an “on-site appraisal” by Paddy to use his words. Even considering just the summits over 609.6m some 40 were not included.  Overall many hillwalking gems are missed from the list such as Knocknahillion, Corcóg, Croaghan Kinsella and the Faha Ridge.  Conversely it does include White Hill in Wicklow of slight prominence.   The Paddy Dillon book should be regarded today as an early inspiration but with an older list approach, produced without the benefit of the 1:50,000 maps that only became available later in the 1990s.

MountainViews’s Vandeleur-Lynam (V-L) list was formalized in 2009 based on the Joss Lynam tradition of incremental development which ended with his 600m Lists (1997 to 2001).  The V-L list was published in print form in 2013 by the then Collins Press, Cork.  It will also appear in the Mountaineering Ireland “Irish Peaks” book due shortly.   Many innovations have been incorporated into the V-Ls on a continuing basis including a non-subjective definition, a prominence figure for all summits and surveying for specific cases as well as extensive user feedback.  MountainViews also publishes several other lists mostly with bigger prominence requirements such as the Hundred Highest list and has gained formal recognition from Mountaineering Ireland, the National Governing Body.  It is supported in the UK by the Database of British and Irish hills and the Long Distance Walks Association.

In summary the modern Vandeleur-Lynam list contains 273 summits, the Paddy Dillon book 212.  Summitting all on either list is an achievement which we celebrate and we congratulate Elizabeth Ashton and Christine Gordon for being the first women to complete the lists they chose


 Simon Stewart & MountainViews Committee, Sept 2019

Chatting on the hills.

Chance encounter, certain enlightenment


Somewhere: Walking fun or working farm?

Challenge walker Gerard Sheehy with a little vignette to illustrate how a chat with those who work the land on which we walk will often be beneficial to both parties.  

If I'm not familiar with a location I'd normally go to the start of a walk the evening before and have a look at the access and find a parking spot, especially if it's going to be dark. 

I came across a guy sitting on a wall and having a smoke so I rolled down the window, told the man what I was doing and asked about leaving the car. 

"Have you insurance?" "Are you guiding" (well not exactly that but that was the gist on the money angle).  

I handed him my MI/Club Membership card and we proceeded to have a general conversation about the issues affecting land owners. He told me a few stories about other incidents/walkers, showed me where was the best place to step on the wire of a fence if it was too high, spoke about the absolute no-no of dogs and said to open the gates instead of climbing them.  

He genuinely thought that I could take €30/€40 grand off him if I got hurt on his land. I told him that I'd have to prove he was negligent and I doubted he had any bear traps that I could step into on his land, so it wasn't going to be an issue.  

He was grateful that I had asked for permission and, that as I seemed to know what I was doing, I could park just below his gate and walk up the track by his house to get to open mountain. I had intended on another track but he insisted this one was better as there was only one gate. Not sure how long I was there but I'd say about a half an hour.  

I was thinking that he might be around when I got off the mountain and as I arrived at the car I could see him coming down from his house. He asked what time I started (he had that 'you're nuts' look), where I went (he had no knowledge of the names of the mountains) and what distance it was (again the you're nuts look). He asked if I ever got lost in the fog (he had) and I told him I'd made a few navigational errors over the years. He still has sheep, but not as many as years gone by. He's been there all his life and he sees the mountains as work. I suppose, we see them as play and, from a land workers point of view, it's not easy to reconcile.  

I thanked him for his hospitality and I can park in that spot again and walk up the track anytime I like.  

The man lives in a stunning location.  

There was about 2km of a road walk as I left the mountain to get back to the car. Twas fair pretty.

The MountainViews ANNUAL, 2018.

We published the annual in Feb 2019
60 pages in 13 Articles about walking on hills, mountains and islands here and abroad.

The ANNUAL  (Please save and read in a PDF viewer.) (Hi-res version.)

(Obtain PRINTED VERSION - Euro 15)


Videos this month:

Karl and Ellie of Tough Soles complete Ireland's waymarked trails on the Wicklow Way
MV users mcrtchly and kernowclimber watch the skies in the Canaries

Videography by Peter Walker.

A place for those interested in Challenge Walking

Click here for the Challenge Walk Calendar

Challenge Walks Newsletter October 2019


The Hardy Annuals Walk for the "active retired". Photo Tom Milligan.


It was with sincere sadness how we learned that we wouldn't see The Highwayman Challenge take place - at least for this year.

Alas with insurance issues raising their unwelcome heads! Many a Hillwalking Club too has found this year to be especially expensive from a public liability perspective. Anyway, The Highwayman is too good an Event to lie dormant for long - so hopeful wishes to all.


Reporting great success is the inaugural outing of the Hardy Annuals Challenge Walk!

Veterans sounds old and retired active members sounds patronising - and all other descriptions are probably just as incorrect! . . . . Simply put, these Boys and Girls are powerful Walkers true! Knowing how to enjoy each and every ramble too is yet another skill-set that can only be brought to the table by years of Walking.

So an honest description of the Hardy Annuals that were, would be how they trumped with grace the experience card!

Hardy Annual B Walk Photo Tom Milligan

Glendalough as always, lay gently in its beauty as near on a hundred Hardy Annuals enjoyed different variations of some lovely routes. On the Day there were four grades of hike: 22k, 20k, 15k & 10k. An incredible €17,235 was raised for Partnership America Latina (PAL) the South American children’s charity. The weather was perfect, which made the whole experience a very enjoyable one for everyone who took part.


As a separate discipline within the world of Hillwalking - the Challenge Hillwalker is a different kettle of fish altogether!

Being able to self-navigate is a prerequisite . . . and it is this in itself that comes with all its different curios. One such aspect is how we love our facts and figures. Helping enormously with the labours of completing a Challenge Walk is the exact knowledge of the task at hand . . . what do I mean by this I hear you say . . .

Well, for example, when slogging away it's a great help in doing the math, usually with GPS, that if you continue at this pace, then another 15 minutes should see you arrive at a given Col. Now that we know the Col is say, lying at 400 metres and that our next summit is a mighty 800 metres we can now begin to chip away at the climb in stages of 100 or perhaps 50 metre blocks . . . helps with the pains of the Day and not to loose heart during the tougher Challenges.

Editor: the next section is nothing to do with Challenge Walking and is retained because of the slight chance that someone will find it is funny or at least cute-weird.

So with correct heights understandably important, another Challenge Walk of sorts took place last month too. The name of this Challenge . . . The Djouce Expedition 2019!

Looking to clarify the height of Djouce Mountain for the upcoming "Irish Peaks" book being produced by Mountaineering Ireland, using MountainViews lists - The Djouce Expedition 2019 braved high winds, sunny weather and the wild, wild wilderness of the Wicklow National Park!

An elite unit from MountainViews was secretly inserted behind hostile lines (main car park was in lock down) by the MVB Volvo (MVB - MountainViews Battleship). A Special Forces group from the Fermoy Scouts also assisted, such was the gravity of the operation!

The Expedition braved the mighty Djouce, the battlefield of War Hill and a contour around by Ballyhorrigan so as to avoid any unnecessary incursions. MountainViews special operative Prendo was on the ground, on reconnaissance, should the volatile theatre ignite.

Sapper Jackill (not real name) executed his duties with incredible bravery and professionalism and was instrumental in the successful outcome of the manoeuvres showing Djouce exact height of 725.509 metres.

Commander Margaret and Captain Simon differed in strategy for extraction - it was always going to be a risk having two highly ranked officers on the same mission - but the operation simply "had to succeed" at all costs.

A safe extraction of all troops was realised by MVB Ford Fiesta and the operation suffered zero casualties.

All members from Fermoy Scouting Coy. were awarded MV bravery badges of honour and codename Jackill was promoted.

Petty Officer Jim Holmes was all but useless and has subsequently been demoted.


Until the New Year,

Onwards and Upwards Boys and Girls,

Keep Safe and Enjoy your Day.

Jim Holmes.

Also take a look at this resource managed by MountainViews:

A place for those interested in Summiteering, Bagging, Highpointing, visiting islands and coastal places.

Correcting place information for hillwalking purposes.
What MV is doing and how you can help.

Last month we mentioned what we have been doing by way of correcting the positions, heights and prominences of Irish summits. We had an account of the work done of measuring a number of places in the Eastern MacGillycuddy's Reeks. Below we have a report from another exercise, this time in Wicklow to determine the height of Djouce and other nearby places.

We would like to repeat: How you can help

Click on this button to contribute your measurement.

The Payoff: Using the data

Many summiteers simply take all of the data for all summits or other places and put it permanently on their GPS or App. This makes identifying and reaching summits much easier with a GPS. (Done using | Export )

Getting improved measurements onto maps - update
We are happy to discuss standardisation and use of this data for mapping including voluntary groups like OSM, smaller commercial mapmakers or larger national mapping agencies. As per our conditions individual hillwalkers and clubs are welcome to use the data. We are happy to note that East-West mapping are taking our surveyed measurements for use with their mapping.

simon3 on Surveying Djouce and its neighbours.
Main walk Start: 09:37, End: 14:10, Duration: 4h33m, Length: 10.0km, Ascent: 369m, Descent: 459m
Places: Start at O16846 07659, White Hill, Djouce, War Hill, end at Start (statistics such as Ascent or Length etc should be regarded as approximate. Duration depends on the speed of the person making the track)

On a breezy day a group of MVers set out to measure Djouce. Previous maps had given us no less than three possible heights for the place: OSI 1:50k at 725m, East-West: 733m and the old 6” lists it at 2385 feet =729.65m (Malin Datum adjusted). Partly this trip was to clarify the height for the upcoming "Irish Peaks" book being produced by Mountaineering Ireland, using MV lists.
While we were at it we decided to measure White Hill and War Hill and the intervening cols.
For both White Hill and War hill the problem is to determine where the top is, both being flattish.

L to r on White Hill: the old top; using the Abney level, reaching the probable highest point.

Previously for White Hill was thought the top was at the outcrop on the left in the picture. But a point some metres distant seemed higher. Our surveyor, member Jackill, whipped out a small Victorian instrument called an "Abney Level" which can determine which of two places is higher. He pronounced a point further on as higher and that was measured using the Trimble professional GPS which can usually measure to around 10cm vertically and horizontally.

Yellow GPS to the left measuring the highest natural ground of Djouce.

After the intervening col we reached Djouce. It is straightforward to see where the top of the natural land is here and our measurement should be within 10cm. The other people present were a group of Scouts that Jackill had brought along for the day.
After measuring Djouce we headed for the col with War Hill, stopping briefly at the "Coffin Stone" well known as a place out of the wind for hillwalkers. What we were looking for was the highest point on the ridge between the two mountains that is also the lowest point on a line between the valleys on either size. We need to find col height to establish the prominence of summits.

The seriously irregular col between Djouce and distant War Hill

In a perfect world of smooth surfaces this would be easy to find, but in reality it is extremely hard and does not remain constant over time given the nature of eroding peat hags.

Measuring what we took to be the current col between War Hill and Djouce.

Accordingly we were aiming to find the height of this point but only to within 1 metre vertical.
Having reached the summit of War Hill we noted that there is a small cairn there however it may not be the highest point. While we were taking measurements of some candidates a lone walker appeared and identified himself as MV member "Prendo".

Jackill, r and three of the scouts that came, in front of Luggala.

We returned to the car park by contouring around Djouce and back along the bored-walk. A great days walking and with five positions made a small contribution to accurate measurement of Ireland's mountains.
  • Djouce height: 725.509m
  • White HillL 631.056m, prominence: 14.37m
  • War Hill: 684.75, prominence: 69.5m
Implications - little change.
  • The height of Djouce rounded to a metre is the same as that on the modern OSI 1:50k map which was published around 1995.
  • The prominence of White Hill is just short of that required for a Vandeleur-Lynam (15m) which is reasonable since it is essentially a rounded southern spur off Djouce. Still, it might have been one.
  • War Hill is 1.25m lower than the OSI figure which does not affect its inclusion in MV lists.

A Guide to Ireland's Mountain Summits - The Vandeleur-Lynams & The Arderins
MountainViews first book available online and in some bookshops. The first reprint with numerous minor amendments is available.

Purchase from here.

simon3 on A Guide to Irelands Mountain Summits
MountainViews first book available online and in many bookshops.

As members will know, for over a decade, has been providing unique information to hillwalkers on all aspects of exploring and enjoying Ireland's upland areas. It's been a collaborative effort by over 1000 of you, and currently contains over 6000 comments on 1057 mountains and hills on the island of Ireland ... ... Click here ...
Bulk sales to groups such as Scouts/ Guides: contact for a discounted price.

This month.
Kudos to our contributors.

We welcome the following new members who enrolled this month. aidanl, ainegaughan, Andy1287, anna1, ashmarcie, Barnsy, bbleasdale, bigrob_101, bushang, chrisonagle, ciarano, clodagh93, dpn88, EddieCoree, hbrem, heartoflyra, Islandeering, JohnGallagher, kcarrick, Leargill, luimneachlass, mazz, meux, nulty1, patrickwil79, phughes080, redned, simon59, Sokratees9, stoat78, tomasek.jan, westwicklow, Winifred, yurypm (34)

Our contributors to all threads this month: Aidy (1), CaptainVertigo (1), Colin Murphy (4), David-Guenot (5), Fergalh (1), Geo (4), Onzy (5), Pepe (2), Peter Walker (2), TommyMc (1), TommyV (5), Val Jones (1), ceadeile (2), chelman7 (1), conorb (3), conormcbandon (1), ewen (1), geohappy (1), Communal summary entries (4), magnumpig (1), march-fixer (2), ochils_trekker (1), peter1 (1), simon3 (4), wicklore (4)
For a fuller list view Community | Recent Contributors

There were comments on the following places , Aghla Beg, Ben Creggan South Top, Camenabologue SE Top, Conigar, Coppanagh, Corveagh, Croaghgorm, Devilsmother North Top, Knockbreteen, Knocknagnauv, Knocknascollop NW Top, Maumakeogh, Mutton Island, Rocky Island, Stumpa Dúloigh, Table Mountain West Top, Taghart South, Tawnaghmore, Tonduff East Top
and these shared tracks Andorra, La Massana , Ben Lugmore East Top, Mweelrea Mountains Ireland, Coppanagh, South Midlands Ireland, Devilsmother Far North Top, Partry/Joyce Country Ireland, Dublin/Wicklow Ireland, France, Occitanie , France, Occitanie , Galway Islands Ireland, Iorras Beag, South Connemara Ireland, Italy, Campania , Italy, Campania , Italy, Campania , Italy, Sicily , Italy, Sicily , Knockbreteen, Shehy/Knockboy Ireland, Knocknafallia, Knockmealdown Mountains Ireland, Mullaghash, Sperrin Mountains Ireland, Muskeagh Hill, Dublin/Wicklow Ireland, Slievenamon, South Midlands Ireland, White Hill, Dublin/Wicklow Ireland tracks were created.

Thanks to all 1374 who have ever contributed place or routes info and forums.

For a full list view Community | Contributors Hall of Fame

Summary. MountainViews now has 9440 comments about 1786 different hills, mountains, island and coastal features out of the total in our current full list (2159). We want to get a good gps track showing each of the major ways to visit each of these places and summits in Ireland. If you see an option to add a "Short Summary" then do please consider creating one since another objective is to have a short summary for every summit and island and coastal feature in Ireland. There's quite a few (373) opportunities for you to be the first to comment on a place, not so many on summits, however lots of opportunities for islands and coastal features as we bring them out. We also have around 2000 shared GPS tracks, mostly in Ireland. Apart from a few popular areas, there is a need for more routes in many different areas. Plain shared tracks without descriptions are welcome however if you have time then do please add route descriptions with photos.


  • If you are contributing, please be careful to respect the interests of landowners. Suggest access routes well away from houses, gardens or that could conceivably impact farming activities. When walking, keep away from gardens or farm buildings. Use stiles or gates wherever possible. Never do anything that could allow animals to roam where the farmer did not intend. Ask permission where appropriate.
  • Take care if parking and do not obstruct roads, lanes and field entrances to access by farm machinery, which can be large. Exercise your dog in parks or forests but avoid countryside or open hillside where they may worry sheep.
  • Report suspicious activity to the police forces, as below.
  • If your car is broken into in an upland area report it to the PSNI or Gardai as this will help them be aware of the issue and tackle it in future. Store the numbers. In Northern Ireland use the PSNI non-emergency number 0845 600 8000. In the Republic you can find the local Garda District HQs phone numbers at Specifically for the hotspot of Wicklow: the Garda Divisional Headquarters in Bray is 01 6665300.
  • If you hear of a problem area or route, write it up in MountainViews which does everyone a service.
    Report rubbish tipping in the Republic - ring EPA hotline 1850 365 121
    Report recreational quads in national park area (in which they are banned). They are also banned in the Mournes. For Wicklow please phone the Duty Ranger: 087-9803899 or the office during office hours Telephone: +353-404-45800. For the Mournes ring the PSNI (as above) or contact Mournes Heritage Trust. Put these numbers in your phone, take regs etc. Let MV know of contact numbers for other areas.
  • If you have visited some of the less well known places, we would appreciate a place rating and also "Improve Grid Ref" for summits and other places.
  • If you find errors in the basic information about places such as in their names, their heights, county name etc please use the "Propose Places Database Change" option.
  • If we can, let's make MV have more than one route up a summit or to a place so as to reduce the tendency for paths to appear. Your grid refs in comments for different starting points show up on MountainViews maps as well as shared GPS tracks.
  • MV Facebook page. Visit the MountainViews Facebook page.
  • ChallengeWalksIreland Visit the Challenge Walks Ireland page (jointly managed by MountainViews)

This newsletter

This newsletter Editor: Simon Stewart, Homepage:
Assistant editors: Colin Murphy, David Owens
Summit comment reviews: David Murphy
Challenge Info: Jim Holmes
Track reviews: Peter Walker
Book reviews: Aidan Dillon, Peter Walker, Mel O'Hara
Videography: Peter Walker
Graphics design advice: madfrankie
Development & support volunteers: Vanush "Misha" Paturyan, Mike Griffin
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