June 2009 newsletter from MountainViews.ie
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MountainViews members are organising a walk in the Mournes, 1 Aug 2009 Details on walk below.


Old volcano provides great walking.
A great description of a walk around Slieve Gullion. Travelling north from Dublin towards Belfast Slieve Gullion and the other remains of the volcano are very visible from the road often directly ahead. This is an excellent route with great information and detail.
pdtempan on Slieve Gullion - history and mystery
Overview Few mountains can offer so much in terms of historical and archaeological interest as Slieve Gullion, the highest point in Co. Armagh. Given the right weather, the landscape is stunning too. The route described is suitable for an all-day trip, as the estimate of 4 hours is based only for the walking time - you will need to allow at least another 2 hours for visits. The route combin ... Click here

The Arderins - a list of 500m summits of Ireland
A mountain list tailored to Irish interest.
Shortly MountainViews will have been around for seven years and we want to celebrate by naming one of the lists we have created. Our list of 500m and higher summits was based on previous work by mostly Irish sources.
Contributors to all MV's lists have made a serious attempt to get correct names, Irish names, derivations, area classification etc. Then using the list form a rich, interactive and social experience on the website to which over 600 contributors have added their experiences of the summits with comments and photos.
Judging by the number of people accessing the site daily (currently in the range 400 to 600) this approach has popular support. We would like to give the 500m list a name reflecting where it came from and we have a suggestion.

The Arderins

The logic of the name "Arderins" is to use the name of one of the summits, Arderin (in the Slieve Blooms, near the centre of the island) to represent the whole 500m list. Arderin is an anglicised form (thought not a total manglicisation) meaning something like "height of Ireland" which we think is also appropriate.
There's still time to comment!
MountainViews: larger pics
It is now possible to upload larger pictures, up to 600 X 450 pixels. As previously, if you pre-reduce your pictures to the size you want, and provided they are not too large they will not be altered (size change, compression) at all by the website. simon3 on Larger Pictures.
Size of pictures for upload with comments. It's now possible to upload larger pictures for your summit comments. Although the max width stays the same at 600 pixels, previously the maximum of the sum of height and width was 850, now it is 1050 which means that you can upload pictures of 600 by 450. Click here
MountainViews: ITM
The site now includes ITM coordinates for summits on the main page. Fuller ITM support will be added as time goes on. As many members will have Irish Grid based maps and/or Trailmaster/Geolives MV will be supporting Irish Grid into the forseeable future.

News Item: OS Map Changes
Further on the proposed changes to the 1:50,000.
  • Existing "Irish Grid" to be replaced by all digit ITM references.
  • 69 new sheets to replace the existing 89 sheets.
  • New sheets to be double sided.
As described last month, the Ordnance Survey of Ireland (OSi) want to bring out a revised 1:50000 "Discovery" series of maps. This is described on the WAI website following a request to OSi for some background information. (Click Here) An equivalent series of maps would be published in Northern Ireland.
OSi have now had various consultations about this. We hope that they will take on board some of the various points & suggestions that have been made notably at the WAI organised consultation.
Short term items include:

  • More durable paper. Preferably waterproof but if not at least tested for rip resistance in ordinary use including folding into mapcases.
  • Single sided printing of whole sheet (surely cheaper and simpler in production, these would be more useful for reviewing the whole area of a sheet or multiple sheets)
  • Names and designators for all summits of interest to walkers (MV could supply lists of mountains and the map could have a small symbol beside each summit type.)
  • Bi-lingual professional-level naming for summits where possible. Irish first in Gaeltachts.
  • Detachable legend to reduce size of map.
  • Better cartography so as to avoid names obscuring crucial contour detail.
  • Proper stewardship in relation to proposing a national and uniform way of representing ITM grid references such as 7123:6123 which is distinctive and different from IG and UTM.
  • Good, no, excellent documentation on the new grid, what is possible in conversion and what is not.

Requiring more long-term work:
  • Checking of detail such as forest tracks, archaeological features, rural housing.
  • Height info for cols.
  • Review of points of interest.
  • Townland names.

Using ITM - need for more accurate grid references, starting now.

Assuming the OSi and their northern colleagues do go ahead with ITM, then MV users need to know various things. The purpose of any grid reference is to exactly specify a place. The 6 digit Irish Grid refs specify a 100m square. There is no accurate conversion between a current 6 digit "Irish Grid" ref and a short equivalent in ITM. The best that can be done is to within a 200m square (i.e. within an area 4 times as great)
So, starting now, one thing that can be done is when you are entering grid references always use 8 or 10 digit IG references where possible. These can be more accurately converted. So if you are writing a comment and you want to describe say where a car park is, if possible use a full Irish Grid ref such as T12345 12345. Even an 8 digit ref like T1234 1234 would be much better than a 6 figure one.

Buy up older maps this summer!

When the new map series comes out the older series will start to go out of print. If you were thinking of adding to your collection to plug particular holes or replacing damaged maps, do it sooner rather than later.

We'll probably think of other things to suggest as matters become clearer.


OSi have arranged an online questionnaire about this which is at OSi Consultation

Walkers Association of Ireland
There is a list of challenge walks on the Walkers Association site.

Upcoming includes:
Gus Tobin Galty Walk Saturday 6th June
Mourne Way Marathon Saturday 13th June 2009
The Lug Walk Saturday 20th June 2009
Mourne International Walking Festival 26th - 28th June 2009
North Sperrins Challenge Walk Sunday 28th June 2009
Comeragh Crossing Sat. July 4th 2009
The Joyce Country Challenge Sat. July 18th 2009

Recent Contributions and News
MountainViews Donard Walk

Bleck Cra and Jackill

Date of Walk confirmed as

Meet Donard Car Park Newcastle Co Down - 90 mins from Dublin.
From ROI - Newry, Hilltown, Follow all signs for Newcastle.
At Bryansford village opposite church take Bryansford Road into Newcastle.
Once in Newcastle ….. ask for directions to Donard Car Park. Park towards the front of the car park - ie on the hills side of the car park. Donard Car Park can fill up very quickly, so sharp is good.

Walk Starts.
Glen River, The Saddle, Slieve Donard, return to The Saddle, Slieve Commedagh, return to Glen River and Pub.

The Mountains of Mourne do in fact sweep down to the sea - and also up from it - so every one of Donard's 850ms is above sea level. Taking the tourist route presents no obstacles at all but it is a tough, dour old pull in places but with views to make it all worthwhile. It is easy for a Grade 1, accessible for a Grade 2 and hard for a Grade 3. If you are used to fairly regular hillwalking at any level, it should pose no problem. Same for Commedagh.

Depending on numbers and such there may also be an opportunity for any Grade 1s to catch another top or two in the loop. TBD.

Also TBD anyone on the Saturday incapacitated by Northern hospitality or just of a notion, there is chat of more hills next day, on the Sunday - so you might want to think about organising accommodation.

Bleck Cra mobile: NI 07745604101 ROI 0894170187

(Just to note that everyone is welcome to join us, on the understanding that this is an informal get together and that you are responsible for yourself, your own safety and any insurance matters appropriate.
You know the craic about kit but if you are bringing friend/s please keep them right. No boots and no waterproofs means a few hours in the pub instead - come to think of it, doesn't sound so bad ……)

Bleck Cra on Donard Walk August
The Scavenger Walk, c’est a dire de Cra and Jackill, as noted within Dhmiriam’s recent and completely wonderful pieces on our lovely Mournes: her breathless enthusiasm is most encouraging and her assessment of these magical hills entirely accurate although that of the Slieve Donard Hotel is quite beyond my ken and even further beyond my Bank Manager’s (should I have such an awful thing). We are st ... Click here
East coast smaller summits
The intrepid Wicklore has been exploring many of the smaller hills around Dublin. In true MV fashion he writes them up good, bad or ugly. This month has included has included the ominous sounding Gibbet Hill in Wexford and the more pleasant sounding one below:
wicklore on Tara Hill
Although only 253 metres high, Tara Hill dominates the landscape of northeast Wexford. This is due to its height relative to the surrounding landscape. Tara Hill stands alone and presents as a lovely rounded hill, easily visible to those travelling on the N11 near Gorey. Saint Caemhan, or Kevin, is the Patron Saint of Tara Hill and the site of the old church founded by him is situated at Kilcavan ... Click here
Previously Undescribed Iveragh Top

Peter Walker on Knockaunanattin W Top
Given the number of visits the main top has had I find it hard to believe that the English invasion (all two of us) of Knockaunanattin W Top constituted its first MV ascent, but never mind. Having sat in the car at Ballaghisheen under copiously lachrymose skies and buffeted by an impressive south-westerly, the quick trot north up from Ballaghbeama (755781) (taking about 45 minutes for the round tr ... Click here
Protecting the Wicklow Uplands
Padodes has researched who to ring in the event that you come across quads or other vehicles damaging uplands in Wicklow. Thanks for this item. No harm to take a few photos before ringing also.
Let us know about places to ring regarding off-road activities in the Galtys or elsewhere.
padodes on Protecting the uplands
I commented a few weeks back on the fact that warning notices (still blithely ignored) have been erected recently by the National Parks and Wildlife Service at several points in the Wicklow Mountains (and perhaps elsewhere) where damage is being done to areas of conservation by all-terrain vehicles. At the prompting of Simon, I tried to pursue the matter a little further, and an answer just recei ... Click here
Further discussion about maps and townland names.
Member "eastwest" (not a stranger to map creation) has been discussing townland names with naming champion "pdtempan"
eastwest on Townlands
That sounds like an interesting addition by OSNI. Don't know about OSI and Discovery Series but you used to be able to purchase (and presumably still can) B/W Townland Indexes on a county basis. The function of these is primarily to illustrate the layout of the 1:10560 and 1:2500 sheets but the townland boundaries and borders are shown Click here
Historical Piece on Wicklow air-crash of 1946

padodes on A map of history
Simon’s comment on the East-West Map of the Dublin Mountains notes that space is also given there to “historic detail that you won’t find elsewhere”. In fact, the little mapping segment of Djouce that accompanies Simon’s comment provides a good illustration of that.

In the bottom right-hand corner of the map there is a reference to an air crash in 1946, and I’m sure that few casual weeken ... Click here
Moac on Golden Eagle Petition
The signature count was 3380 on 5/5/2009 but the more the merrier. I was lucky enough to see a Golden Eagle fly low overhead in Moydart about 15 years ago and it was an unforgettable sight .. please take a moment to sign up ...................................................................................................................................................................... The ... Click here
Strange light in the Night Sky

simon3 on Sun Pillar
Some while before sunrise on the last day of May 09 I saw this odd phenomena in the Dingle sky. Although I've seen many of the unusual atmospheric phenomena like Brocken Spectre or crepuscular rays, I don't recall seeing anything quite like this before.
There's some very reddish sky, clouds and a few aircraft contrails (so common over Dingle.) However the broad, bright vertical shape is u ... Click here
Sorry if I didn't mention what you posted .. there's a list of all contributors for the month later.

Musings on persons and place, sometimes loosely connecting to hills.


Jack Vettriano is the most talented, expressive artist of our times. He is technically brilliant, his colours are mindblowing; and his wonderful scenes ooze sex. So why does he not hang in this posh gallery or another? Because he is popular. The artistic elite are terrified of popularity. The correct posturing to take artistic laurels is to be impoverished and your work reviled by everyone other than a madman or two. Even worst than popular, he is (into the bunker everyone) populist. Therefore the Beatles are crap, Ford is crap, Chinese food is crap and ice cream is crap. Sensing the development of mischief in his work he purposely presents us with typical Central Scottish families heading for a day at the beach and says in spades "look, we are bright, colourful people and we lead most interesting lives". Other than the Portland in London and until then, few other galleries would take him.
.. the Lomonds ..
Nowadays he is so wealthy he couldn't care less - his work drips from the walls of greeting cards shops and ambushes you in the most ordinary of homes. While also talented young artists plod away trying to fashion their oeuvres, big Jack just gives us what we want - even when we didn't know it. Jack Vettriano comes from the industrial town of Methil in Fife. Fife is cut off on 3 sides by the sea and generally accessed from the South by the famous Forth Bridges. Its tallest hills, the Lomonds (nothing to do with Loch Lomond on the west) top out at around 450ms and present an easy and relaxing hill stroll. They are volcanic, gently ascending with a few surprisingly craggy cliffs. Against an otherwise generally flat land they present a more dramatic silhouette than their metres suggest. Via Edinburgh. You can't have everything.

Your comments or suggestions to The Scrabbler.

Site notes If you can set-up your email to get web-format ("html format"), you should be able to get more out of this newsletter. Previous Newsletters
GPS Notes. Would you like a map on your GPS so that you can visualise summits, contours etc? Well, depending on whether you have the right sort of GPS and your willingness to do a bit of uploading, we may have the answer.
simon3 on GPS for Ireland, article, download.
Currently MV provides GPS information in the form of waypoints that indicate the summit positions of all of the mountains in our list. While better than nothing this still does not use the full potential of GPS units . Essentially these can show maps and points of interest. There is no commercial product for GPS units at present, however we are pleased to announce the results of various communi ... Click here

Also the latest from MV member pazapas, with more uptodate info including lakes, rivers, roads, antiquities, 150m list from this site and urban areas.
pazapas on Ireland Map v1.91
Ireland Map v1.91 is available both for Mapsource (Windows) and Road Trip (Mac OS X). OSM layer is now routable without too much errors and it displays more features mostly in towns. Please forget v1.90. Click here

This month.
We welcome the following new members who enrolled this month. Adey, alansweeney100, alecdundon, apalomo, barycjusz, bcrean, BearnaBaol, benj, bmoran, bobrien, bonkers, bowls, boylans, boynesider, Brendan_Quinn, brianaco, Caillte, Caomhindf, cargillatlodge, catmc, cburke, celticbadger, charmed, chong, Chris-Reid, cianfitz, CiaranClancy, clom, cmcshane, cmjfriend, cobra, colinmdean, Cormacg, costello_p, Creamy, czarhan, daveyboy, david72, DBwalker, deafmute, deaglan, decccco, DermotN, djwalker, dlane, DnC, dodo, dougcurtis, eamonjhoey, eamonryan, eiremoss, elementary_pengu, elnimoraft, emme, eunder, Fiz, flexfi, fmcgurren, g55555, Gearoid, golaman, gordyneill, Grandad, Granuaile, hilarymcc, hillscregg, HomerSimpson, ianbalb, ibeaney, Indiana_Jones, ingo, Jaba992, jamesdennis, Jamesito07, jameswburke, jkucera, joejdr, joeyb12, johnamdickson, johncahill1, johndbrennan, jpddooley, justydawson, kaisonia, kapu1, Kedo93, kevin12, kevin33, kevincre, kevinjoel, KevinMount, kingcobra, kreklova, lairdxemu, lisacol, livzkelly, llamafarma, lukeclancy, mack14, madog, malb, malcolmph, marcomacity, MariaRodican, mcdoman57, menace, michelej, MickDuff, minktoast, mmc, mossyjd4240, mseward, Nailer67, NickBell, nora64, oloanc, parsys, Patch, patmoran, paul01, paulamoto, PaulCoyne, petersmyname, philly, PhoenixDrum, potency, PuterMan, quinnsean0, rainsfordsj, rashield, RayCrowe, rdevlin143, redmondcody, redzz45, ronanoconnor1, rotterdam82, saltarska, sduce, seandrafter, seanjoe, sebastian, sewelldog, shadow, sheeranb, shorty, sidhalley1, sizzle, spirit, StephenRyan, stvddr, sumofitz, swilkinson, SzymSzym, Tadhgie, Taksim05, tantaleigh, testy, texanlaura, tin, tomj, TomTreacy, TonyN, trehyg, twister, undir, vanczyz, whelanj, wroc88, ysheedy, Zenga (170)
Our contributors to all threads this month: Big-Foot (3), Bleck Cra (2), Brendan_Quinn (1), ChrisG (1), Conor74 (2), Geo (3), Himiwack (1), Moac (1), PaulCoyne (1), Peter Walker (5), PuterMan (1), StephenRyan (1), Thylacine (1), WillHoey (1), andodenis (1), andyharte (1), csd (2), ddiamond (1), dhmiriam (8), dmcdonag (1), eastwest (3), eflanaga (2), fergal meath (1), gerrym (2), jackill (1), jcunningham (1), kevin dockery (1), liame (2), maclimber (1), madfrankie (3), oldsoldier (1), padodes (2), paraic (1), pazapas (1), pdtempan (6), ryansramblers (1), sbender (1), sduce (1), simon3 (6), slemish (5), up-and-down (1), wicklore (7), woody (2), wordhole (1), zeaphod (1) and Contributors to GPS information this month were: Big-Foot (4), eflanaga (7), Geo (1), JACKILL (1), simon3 (3), wicklore (18)

For a fuller list view Community | Recent Contributors
There were comments on the following summits An Grogán Mór, Annagh Hill, Barr na Coilleadh, Beenkeragh, Benbulbin, Binnion, Birreencorragh, Black Mountain NE Top, Brassel Mountain, Cairngaver, Clogrennan Hill, Cnoc an Bhráca, Cnoc na dTarbh, Cnoc na Sleá, Coomnalack Top, Cornasaus, Croagh Patrick, Croaghmeen, Crockalough, Croghan Kinsella, Croslieve, Cruach na Míol, Cuilcagh, Cummer Top, Devilsmother, Douglas Top, Errigal, Galtymore, Gibbet Hill, Greenoge, Gullaba Hill, Hag's Tooth, Killerry Mountain, Kings Mountain, Knockaunanattin W Top, Knockbrack, Knocklettercuss, Knocknacusha, Knocknagapple, Knocknalougha, Long Mountain, Loughsalt Mountain, Lugnaquillia, Moneyteige North, Mount Oriel, Mweelrea, Skerry Hill, Slieve Binnian North Top, Slieve Carn, Slieve Croob, Slieve Fyagh, Slieve Na Calliagh, Slievefoore, Tara Hill and these walks were created Slieve Gullion - history and mystery
Thanks to all 674 who have ever contributed summits or routes info and forums. .

For a full list view Community | Contributors Hall of Fame

Summary. MountainViews now has 3416 comments about 744 different hills & mountains out of the total in our current full list (1048). We need more comments, better comments and more balance for every summit as our rate for "data completion" now that the 150m summits have been added is currently around 33% There's plenty (304) of opportunities for you to be the first to comment on a summit. Listing summits in "Lists & Logs" (tick MV completion information) allows you to see what information we need to get more even coverage.

If you are contributing, please be careful to respect the interests of landowners. Suggest access routes well away from houses, gardens or that could conceivably impact farming activities. When walking, keep away from gardens or farm buildings. Use stiles or gates wherever possible. Never do anything that could allow animals to roam where the farmer did not intend.
If you hear of a problem area or route, write it up in MountainViews which does everyone a service.
Report rubbish tipping in the Dublin/ Wicklow area - ring PURE 1850 365 121
Report quads in national park area (in which they are banned). For Wicklow please phone the Duty Ranger: 087-9803899 or the office during office hours Telephone: +353-404-45800. Put these numbers in your phone, take regs etc. Let MV know of contact numbers for other areas.
If you have climbed some of the less well known places, we would appreciate a summit rating.We could use your help in making ratings for the unrated mountains which you have climbed, such as: Inis Tuaisceart, Maumfin, Inis na Bró, Carhoo Hill, Edenacarnan, Carranarah, An Tiaracht, Disert, Ceann Sibéal, Croaghan Hill and some 109 others. and also GPS readings for summits.
If we can, let's make MV have more than one route up a summit so as to reduce the tendency for paths to appear. Your grid refs in comments for different starting points show up on MountainViews maps.

This newsletter This newsletter is from Simon Stewart for MountainViews
Homepage: www.simonstewart.ie
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