November 2007 newsletter from
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/mv/index.php?user=guestuser&tp=921Rn3F7LcY4g'center'> New generation on Slievebawn, Blackstairs.

New contributor motherofdivineja sends us this gorgeous composition taken on Slievebawn in the Blackstairs.

Many MV members are interested in GPS. Why not have a look at this Walkers Association workshop.

Walkers Association of Ireland


Wednesday November 21st 2007 Course details, information, costs, booking on the WAI temporary website here. There will also be a short section on how to use MountainViews data with your GPS.


I caught the end of some man-kicking midday programme the other day. Some sorceress was clawing the eyes out of "clubs". You know the thing - last week let's kill cabbages - cabbages are all men's fault; next week let's kill clubs - same reason. Anyway, the thrust (and I use the word nervously) was that people in clubs are generally a good thing other than those in walking clubs, who "just want a sh *g" (excuse the vernacular: I quote directly).
I was not a little non-plussed. That being said, I should love to hear tales on this subject from viewers who are members of walking clubs. Eg " I am 60 and infertile until I joined a walking club - now I have 16 children and a labrador" or the romantic "Jim and Joan were in a walking club for years and never looked at each other - now they're getting married" - which incidentally I know to be true. Perhaps it's something do with the fact that at any given moment in a hillwalk, you are perusing someone's pelvis department and someone else is perusing yours.
.. few things less attractive than hillwalkers ..
The temptation for car nal sin is clearly uncontrollable!
Or is it? The coven above described, should have been anywhere above 100' on Saturday. Gales blew gallons of sublimating mist up the trouserlegs, in the ears, up the noses and into the kecks* of those irresistible hillwalkers. Had anyone found me in any way attractive, I should have directed them to the nearest optician or even psychiatrist. In most conditions, there are few things less attractive than hillwalkers - and the more you have, the less attractive it is. I do chuckle though sometimes when I see new members to clubs arrive with their straightened hair and carefully positioned berets. Ooh la la!

Your comments or suggestions to The Scrabbler.

* Kecks: Scrabbler-speak for trousers. According to the Urban Dictionary it also means "Prior to chewing a thick gooey substance, keck occurs when one's mouth is extremely sticky and full of foods such as chocolate or peanut butter. This is normally an uncomfortable experience."
I expect you wanted to know this.

weedavie A great rant about the inconsistencies of hill-walking with the ethics of Saving the Planet from Global Warming

I'm a hill-walker. On the hills I see the effects of global warming increase year by year and I'm fighting it. We're practically vegetarian, recycle everything we can, belong to a community car scheme and I cycle to work. Hill walkers care. Except of course although the detail's mostly true, in effect it's total bol lox. I must burn 150 gallons of petrol a year on hill access. And I don't like crowded hills so there's normally only 1 or 2 in the car. And no one who gets into an airplane has got any conscience about the environment whatsoever but the Edinburgh Galway flight is so convenient for a weekend walk in the Pins.

So what next. Well at the moment the effects aren't too bad for me. Winter came in Scotland this year in March and April which gives a good day length to appreciate the full fun of snow in the hills. OK the ptarmigans and hares, which at the moment are already beginning to turn white, look pretty silly (and obvious to predators) and they'll be beginning to turn back by the time the snow does come. They'll just find out looking cuddly isn't everything.

The nightmare comes if change becomes catastrophic and even then there's a bright side. A three feet rise in sea-level will remove Leith and lots of Dublin so that's win-win for some of us [Ed. a curious Scottish viewpoint]. It will also move a number of Munros below the 3000 foot mark thus dropping them off the list and saving considerable boot erosion. Even if the Gulf Stream gets diverted and we get an Arctic climate there should be fantastic skiing and winter-walking on our doorsteps so that should be great until the fuel runs out.

So what's to do? Give up your stag weekend in Krakow (vice) or charity cycle trip to VietNam to save the orang-utan (virtue)? Well when Thatcher privatised everything in the eighties [Ed: or FF/PDs round these parts], us wimp lefties refused to buy shares so the right won the political debate and got all the profit to themselves. The monkeys are running the planet so let's get our share of the fun, then cycle to work to show we care.

Wee Davie

Recent Contributions and News
Two Rock - a mystery carving
padodes has stumbled upon something odd and quite probably trivial on this summit near Dublin. See if you agree with his theory as to what it is?
padodes on Two Rock Mountain
Walking very much off track the other day on the south-facing slope of Two Rock Mountain (Fairy Castle), above Glencullen, I quite literally stumbled upon a low granite rock with a curious sculpted engraving. According to my GPS reading, it lies at O 1686 2194, in an area to which the OSI map gives the name of Ballybrack. At first sight, it looks somewhat like the well-known Christogram that we se ... Click here
Mountain Rescue
Last month we got a complaint from Mournes Mountain Rescue about a piece done by Bleck Cra on a rescue he witnessed. MV doesn't get many complaints but we thought hard about this one. It's about balancing rights such as free speech and public discussion on the one hand with reputation and fairness on the other. We felt that the original comment was unfair in that it didn't present the facts in a way that could be evaluated or rebutted, should anyone wish to.
The piece was replaced by Bleck Cra by one in a fact by fact style.
MV believes that it has upheld the principle of free speech and allowing debate by its contributor in this case.
MV insofar as it has a policy salutes the great work done by Mountain Rescue in Ireland, and has said so on previous occasions. Like MV, Mountain Rescue is a largely voluntary effort.
While not an issue in this case, for the future we would remind contributors that the MV Conditions of Use state "A condition of contributing to this site is that contributors must accept responsibility for their walk guides, comments or other contributions. Notwithstanding this, contributions are moderated on an occasional basis."

As MV continues to grow its membership and readership it timely to consider how controversial issues should be handled. If anyone has anything to add to the Conditions of Use or other guidelines or anything to say about the governance of MV, why not use the Suggestions section of Motley Views?

Following my posting of a comment on 1st October, Simon received communication from the Secretary of the Mourne Mountain Rescue, objecting to the comment which it considered to be “incorrect, damaging and hurtful”. After taking advice and views from within mv, it has been decided that a useful and alternative approach would be to state the facts as known. This will also afford the Rescue a platfor ... Click here
Emigrants' Cairn

eflanaga has been visiting this an other objects on Carntogher, part of the high land to the NE of the Sperrins. The area is littered with archaeological remains, many accessible via a waymarked way. So many interesting places, so little time. eflanaga on Carntogher
Carntogher punches much more than its weight in terms of view and scenery available from its broad grassy top. Breathtaking views SE over the Lough Neagh basin and onwards to the Mournes, NE towards the Antrim Hills, North beyond Binevenagh & Lough Foyle towards the Innishowen hills in distant view, NW Donegal's western peaks beckon invitingly, while immediately west the Sperrins await your foots ... Click here
Making Croghan Kinsella into a decent day's walk perhaps.
csd describes Moneyteige North, a summit on a ridge extending out NE from Croghan Kinsella which sounds like it could be useable as a way of creating a longer walk, though perhaps not a circuit, out of a visit to Croghan Kinsella.
csd on Moneyteige North
We approached Moneyteige North from the north, parking at T15936 77930. The tangle of forest tracks shown on Sheet 62 isn't apparent on the ground, so route-finding is fairly straightforward. Just follow what is obviously the most-used track, turning right up the hill at 151 761 towards the summit. Trees block the view to one side of the summit area, but there are some vistas over to Croghan to th ... Click here
OSI Trailmaster and the North
Apparently the OSI (Ordnance Survey of Ireland) is going to publish Trailmaster, its electronic map for the "North" to include Donegal, Sperrins and the Mournes. We look forward to that since there is so much good walking in those parts.
The western end of the Bluestacks.
This is a most interesting ridge with great views and almost no signs of use.
simon3 on Binn Bhán
If you approach Binbane from the Glenties - Mountcharles road the summit rises impressively from the bog. You may notice an odd thing. The southern side of the summit is steeper than the northern. This is extremely unusual in Ireland. David Kirk, occasional geological commentator in MV, tells me that the summit is made of "Gaugin" Quartzite but there is a fault so that the southern slopes are ... Click here
Newsletter Archive
After each newsletter I get a few complaints that newsletters didn't arrive or they arrived blank etc. Some of this is because mail filters decide they don't like mail from MountainViews (shared) web hosting site. Sometimes you can fix this by getting MountainViews on your "whitelist" or perhaps changing your email address to one that MountainViews can send to.
Some of the problems should be resolved at MountainViews end. It's going to take some time to try various approaches to fixing this. As part of an effort to reduce the pain please try out our new archive facility.
The menu allows you to see old newsletters.
simon3 on Newsletter Archive
If you want to see previously published monthly newsletters, take a look at this new section. Just go to More | Newsletters or to this address /newsletter Newsletters back to the beginning of 2007 are shown. Click here
Sorry if I didn't mention what you posted .. there's a list of all contributors for the month later.


An Antrim ridge walk.
This looks really interesting and different. Take a look at the simply amazing rock pdtempan has photographed. pdtempan on Sallagh Braes to Glenarm
Overview This walk along one of the lesser-known sections of the Ulster Way combines dramatic landscapes (especially at Sallagh Braes and Knockdhu) with views of the Scottish coast, weather permitting, and plenty of archaeological interest, and all this for relatively little investment of effort. It is best enjoyed in May, when the carpet of bluebells is in bloom at Sallagh. With a little l ... Click here

Site notes If you can set-up your email to get web-format ("html format"), you should be able to get more out of this newsletter.
Getting a map on your GPS. Would you like a map on your GPS so that you can visualise summits, contours etc? Well, depending on whether you have the right sort of GPS and your willingness to do a bit of uploading, we may have the answer.
simon3 on GPS for Ireland, article, download.
Currently MV provides GPS information in the form of waypoints that indicate the summit positions of all of the mountains in our list. While better than nothing this still does not use the full potential of GPS units . Essentially these can show maps and points of interest. There is no commercial product for GPS units at present, however we are pleased to announce the results of various communi ... Click here

This month.
We welcome the following new members who enrolled this month. aidanroe, alanmartin, albatross, alfa2000, ammaco, amryan, anderf1, ann, aoifec, Atom, a_whelan99, behemot, bjmobrien, bmanews, bnishe, bobanurs, Bouncer, brainfailure, brendanh, BrownBull, bushman, bward, carey-shakes, cffoley, cha1888, Climber, climbing, cobyrne, conocal, conor3, conorg, conormcguinness, darrencottee, dasher, daveandbob, dbroz, DenisD, DeniseHogan, dgallagher, dougmac, Edburke, Edser54, eilish, enoonan, EoinMoran, eredmond, extreme, fdasfafaf, fraba, francisx, freddy, genie, gerard247, gilmerr, glasmacher, greenpark, hackswood, hazysprinkler, hectorg, hectorg1, hhh, hillstroller, hwelch, imra_dev_officer, incis, Itac, j74kennedy, jacky, Jeremyt, jerrycotter, jgahan, kaede, karkarmi, kbb, kennedyjk, kenobi, kimj, lacebridge, largow357, lekasa, ljakub01, lorrainefitz, lyonss, malbdes, mamurphy353, marcandrose, margo, mark206000, martinodonnell, marty1190, mbohill, michellen, mickeyflute, modonnell, mondas, Monkton, mooneyev, morlan, motherofdivineja, mullaghteelin, MunsterMan, myroundshoulders, nbranch, nbruton, nhazelton, nickgarland, nickygarland, nicolas, noelle, oconnb3, ostansliabhliag, OxfordKnee, patk, paulfingleton, paulie_1234, paulmcgirr, Paul_Brown, Peter_D, PietSki101, qazaq, qban, regostation, rjw68, robbie123, roblee, ronanc, sarahd, simonjyahoo, skibill, slademore, spudz, strog, sylph, syrenka, Tannhauser, Terrance, trog, urchin, Weebs, Yawlman, yrwyddfa777 (141)
Our contributors to all threads this month: AussieSean (1), Bleck Cra (6), alex92 (2), beckett (1), bushman (1), csd (9), denise-vosges (1), djouce (1), eflanaga (7), maclimb (1), motherofdivineja (1), padodes (5), pdtempan (3), simon3 (6), weedavie (3) and Contributors to GPS information this month were: csd (8), eflanaga (8), jackill (3), john_desmond (3)
There were comments on the following mountains Aghla Beg (South), Benglenisky, Benleagh, Binn Bhán, Binn Bhán NE Top, Binn Bhraoin, Birreencorragh, Birreencorragh South Top, Birreencorragh West Top, Blackstairs Mtn, Carnaween, Carntogher, Carrauntoohil, Carrigalachan, Carrigroe, Caunoge, Cloghmeen Hill, Corick Mountain, Corrigasleggaun, Knockaffertagh, Knockastanna, Moneyteige North, Slieve Gullion, Slievebawn, Slievefoore, Two Rock Mountain and these walks were created Sallagh Braes to Glenarm
Thanks to all 478 who have ever contributed
The five who have contributed most to the site are simon3 (410), csd (210), jackill (145), Bleck Cra (118), gerrym (113).
Summary. MountainViews now has 2496 comments about 524 different mountains out of the total in our current full list (840). We need more comments, better comments and more balance for every summit as our rate for "data completion" now that the 400m summits have been added is currently under 32% There's plenty (316) of opportunities for you to be the first to comment on a summit. Listing summits in "Lists & Logs" (tick MV completion information) allows you to see what information we need to get more even coverage.

If you are contributing, please be careful to respect the interests of landowners. Suggest access routes well away from houses, gardens or that could conceivably impact farming activities. When walking, keep away from gardens or farm buildings. Use stiles or gates wherever possible. Never do anything that could allow animals to roam where the farmer did not intend.
If you hear of a problem area or route, write it up in MountainViews which does everyone a service. Report rubbish tipping in the Dublin/ Wicklow area - ring PURE 1850 365 121
If you have climbed some of the less well known places, we would appreciate a mountain rating.We could use your help in making ratings for the unrated mountains which you have climbed, such as: An Machaire, Foilduff, Croaghcarragh, Cnoc Onna, Hangmans Hill, Barraduff Mountain, Killaha Mountain, Tirkslieve, Cnoc Lios Uachtair, Croaghmeen and some 17 others. and also GPS readings for summits.
If we can, let's make MV have more than one route up a mountain so as to reduce the tendency for paths to appear. Your grid refs in comments for different starting points show up on MountainViews maps.

This newsletter This newsletter is from Simon Stewart for MountainViews
Previous newsletters View them at
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