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Craig Cae Hir - Mo.. by simon3   (Show all posts)
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wicklore
2013-10-08 19:56:46
Subjective list of hills
Currently in order for summits to be included on a MountainViews list it has to meet certain objective, measurable criteria. Each list on MV has its own criteria including height & prominence etc. This objective approach makes organising lists a mathematical and logical task and a summit either meets the criteria or does not.

This objective approach can be criticised as it is cold and clinical in how it decides what gets included and what doesn’t. It does not allow a subjective approach to include summits. Many summits that are superior in their appearance, culture or challenge do not make it into MV’s lists if they don’t meet the logical criteria. Equally, some truly appalling summits DO make it into the MV lists by virtue of the fact that they meet the logical criteria.

MV has always stuck to the logical approach. This has resulted in a current list of 1025 summits. All of them either meet plain mathematical criteria or are the high point of a county. MV has always attracted criticism for the summits we leave out. For years we have heard the various solid arguments for why other summits of beauty, historical or physical importance, local interest or challenge should be included. Some suggest that there should be NO criteria at all – that if someone feels it should be on MV, well then it should be.

It takes an enormous amount of work to prepare a hill for inclusion on MV. We can’t just put up a mountain or hill with no accompanying data. We know from member activity on the site, as well as from the comprehensive feedback we received during a three month survey in 2010, that members want and need data. Lots of data. Map coordinates, access start and finish points, information about parking, gps tracks, photos and descriptions, information on mountain range, county, height, prominence, summit name in English AND Irish...the list goes on. Therefore before we list a summit we must gather all of this information. Do we have gaps in some information, or get some things wrong? – you bet we do! AS a group of volunteers relying solely on the goodwill and time of our background team, as well as the incredible contribution of all our members, it’s natural that things get left out or included in error. MountainViews is open to correction and we make any changes that are deemed (by the MV committee) to have enough evidence to support such a change. The flip side is that we don’t make every change suggested by members – we need those members to provide sufficient evidence or justification for change that makes it worthwhile to prioritise it.

Members have long called for a subjective list of hills – summits that deserve to be included for their intrinsic value and not based on cold logic such as prominence etc. The call for having a subjective list of summits has been consistent over the years. A perusal of the General and Suggestion Forums throws up some typical and valid suggestions from ’09 & ‘10:

Marymac on the Hill of Tara: http://mountainviews.ie/motleyviews/general/comment/1529/ ,

Padodes re Bray Head: http://mountainviews.ie/motleyviews/general/comment/1418/

Reidyden re Stacks Mountains: http://mountainviews.ie/motleyviews/general/comment/1288/

Bryanmccabe re Knockeyon: http://mountainviews.ie/motleyviews/suggestions/comment/1325/

The MV committee began looking at the issue of a subjective hills list in earnest earlier this year. We are nearing completion of a separate two year project that we hope will add over 300 smaller summits to MV in the New Year. As this nears completion we had begun to look ahead and to see what was next on our extensive to-do list. To this end we have focussed on a ‘Hills of Cultural. Historical, Physical and Local interest.’ This is the working title for what will be a purely subjective list. This is where members can nominate a summit they feel should be included, and which doesn’t currently exist on MV or meet traditional requirements. In line with the data available for all MV listed summits, we will need to gather relevant information for new summits such as coordinates, access points, mountain range or area, county etc.

For critics who feel such information is irrelevant we can only say that this is what the vast majority of members want and we don’t intend to just list summit names without the other necessary information to go with them. We have an initial working list and are doing the extensive background work to gather the data needed. We hope this will finally meet the consistent call for such a list and we look forward to rolling it out soon. We also hope that members will not only propose hills for inclusion in such a list, but will also provide decent justification and relevant data too. We will provide more information on this exciting new project later in October. It can take time to make changes, but we do listen to our members!
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RECENT CONTRIBUTIONS 1 2 3 .. 21 Next page >>
Summit Comment
Tievecrom: Ring of Hills
Bunsen7 22 hours ago.
Coming down off Slieve Gullion (Culann's Mtn) you get this lovely framed view of Forkhill sandwiched between Croslieve and Tievecrom. It's easy to understand how a village might pop up in such a n...

  
Track
Near Galtybeg, Galty Mountains (Ireland)
caiomhin a day ago.
walk, Len: 11.3km, Climb: 663m, Area: Galtybeg, Galty Mountains (Ireland) Galty...

  
Summit Comment
Barr na Coilleadh: Shapely perhaps phallic tower.
simon3 a day ago.
Barnacuillew and it's Irish Aviation Authority radome pictured from the north.

Track
Circuit of Dirkbeg Lough - easier ascent
simon3 a day ago.
The purpose of this walk is to reach the Maumtrasna plateau and Maumtrasna NE top (MNET). The lattter is quite possib... walk, Len: 11.6km, Climb: 564m, Area: Maumtrasna North-East Top, Partry/Joyce

  
Forum: General
Riddle of the Spinc
BleckCra a day ago.
I was at Glendalough yesterday and on the Spinc for the first time. I cannot imagine there haven't already been a thousand hours debate on the boardwalk and and that there won't be a thousand hour...

  
Summit Summary
Lenadoon Point: Huge panorama on geologically interesting shoreline.
Collaborative entry Last edit by: simon3 a day ago.
This is point with a very large panorama at the north east mouth of Killala Bay. There is an old signal tower there once put there for military reasons and then later for commercial shipping purpo...

Track
Benwee Coastal Walk
simon3 a day ago.
The walk starts at a small carpark and Wild Atlantic Way sign just west of Benwee. In fact some of the local rock has ... walk, Len: 8.1km, Climb: 245m, Area: An Bhinn Bhu?, North Mayo (Ireland) An B

  
Summit Comment
St. John's Island: A Tunnel Runs Through It
Pepe 2 days ago.
Easily accessible from Ballydowane strand, this island lies a couple of hundred metres to the left as you stand on the beach - just off the easterly arm of Ballydowane cove. There is a small carpa...

  
Summit Comment
Gull Island South: A Kingdom of Cormorants
Pepe 2 days ago.
Plenty of room to park at Ballyvoony cove. Gull Island lies about half a kilometre to the southwest, with a small outcrop of rocks directly to the south of the island. I gave Gull Island South - a...

Track
Lenadoon Coastal Walk
simon3 2 days ago.
walk, Len: 2.5km, Climb: 8m, Area: Mayo Coastal Hill (Ireland)

  
Summit Comment
Maumtrasna North-East Top: Small top, big drop.
simon3 3 days ago.
The summit is truly a bump on the spur to the north of Lough Dirkbeg. From Buckaun you can get an idea of the approx 250m cliff beside the summit down towards the lough.

  
Forum: General
Lofoten Islands Norway
brenno 5 days ago.
There are innumerable wonderful views on the coast of Norway, but the area around the Lofoten Islands offers probably the best. Don't know the name of the mountain in the pic, but it's about an ho...


RECENT CONTRIBUTIONS 1 2 3 .. 21 Next page >>