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Hi Mary,When someo.. by Peter Walker   (Show all posts)
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wicklore
2013-10-08 19:56:46
Subjective list of hills
Currently in order for summits to be included on a MountainViews list it has to meet certain objective, measurable criteria. Each list on MV has its own criteria including height & prominence etc. This objective approach makes organising lists a mathematical and logical task and a summit either meets the criteria or does not.

This objective approach can be criticised as it is cold and clinical in how it decides what gets included and what doesn’t. It does not allow a subjective approach to include summits. Many summits that are superior in their appearance, culture or challenge do not make it into MV’s lists if they don’t meet the logical criteria. Equally, some truly appalling summits DO make it into the MV lists by virtue of the fact that they meet the logical criteria.

MV has always stuck to the logical approach. This has resulted in a current list of 1025 summits. All of them either meet plain mathematical criteria or are the high point of a county. MV has always attracted criticism for the summits we leave out. For years we have heard the various solid arguments for why other summits of beauty, historical or physical importance, local interest or challenge should be included. Some suggest that there should be NO criteria at all – that if someone feels it should be on MV, well then it should be.

It takes an enormous amount of work to prepare a hill for inclusion on MV. We can’t just put up a mountain or hill with no accompanying data. We know from member activity on the site, as well as from the comprehensive feedback we received during a three month survey in 2010, that members want and need data. Lots of data. Map coordinates, access start and finish points, information about parking, gps tracks, photos and descriptions, information on mountain range, county, height, prominence, summit name in English AND Irish...the list goes on. Therefore before we list a summit we must gather all of this information. Do we have gaps in some information, or get some things wrong? – you bet we do! AS a group of volunteers relying solely on the goodwill and time of our background team, as well as the incredible contribution of all our members, it’s natural that things get left out or included in error. MountainViews is open to correction and we make any changes that are deemed (by the MV committee) to have enough evidence to support such a change. The flip side is that we don’t make every change suggested by members – we need those members to provide sufficient evidence or justification for change that makes it worthwhile to prioritise it.

Members have long called for a subjective list of hills – summits that deserve to be included for their intrinsic value and not based on cold logic such as prominence etc. The call for having a subjective list of summits has been consistent over the years. A perusal of the General and Suggestion Forums throws up some typical and valid suggestions from ’09 & ‘10:

Marymac on the Hill of Tara: http://mountainviews.ie/motleyviews/general/comment/1529/ ,

Padodes re Bray Head: http://mountainviews.ie/motleyviews/general/comment/1418/

Reidyden re Stacks Mountains: http://mountainviews.ie/motleyviews/general/comment/1288/

Bryanmccabe re Knockeyon: http://mountainviews.ie/motleyviews/suggestions/comment/1325/

The MV committee began looking at the issue of a subjective hills list in earnest earlier this year. We are nearing completion of a separate two year project that we hope will add over 300 smaller summits to MV in the New Year. As this nears completion we had begun to look ahead and to see what was next on our extensive to-do list. To this end we have focussed on a ‘Hills of Cultural. Historical, Physical and Local interest.’ This is the working title for what will be a purely subjective list. This is where members can nominate a summit they feel should be included, and which doesn’t currently exist on MV or meet traditional requirements. In line with the data available for all MV listed summits, we will need to gather relevant information for new summits such as coordinates, access points, mountain range or area, county etc.

For critics who feel such information is irrelevant we can only say that this is what the vast majority of members want and we don’t intend to just list summit names without the other necessary information to go with them. We have an initial working list and are doing the extensive background work to gather the data needed. We hope this will finally meet the consistent call for such a list and we look forward to rolling it out soon. We also hope that members will not only propose hills for inclusion in such a list, but will also provide decent justification and relevant data too. We will provide more information on this exciting new project later in October. It can take time to make changes, but we do listen to our members!


RECENT CONTRIBUTIONS 1 2 3 .. 26 Next page >>
Track
Exploration of Wicklow Head from the north.
simon3 a day ago.
As you will immediately see from the track this was an exploration of what is possible thoroughly exploring various d... walk, Len: 6.6km, Climb: 126m, Area: Brides Hill, Wicklow Coastal Hill (Irelan

  
Summit Comment
Ballyguile Hill: Viewed from the south. Hope you like masts.
simon3 a day ago.
Ballyguile Hill can also be seen well from the south. Here's a view taken from near Brides Hill (a coastal hill near Wicklow Head)

  
Summit Comment
The Eagles Rock: A short but sweet scramble
IainT 3 days ago.
One of the few Irish summits that needs the use of hands by the easiest route. Those happy with exposure can get a good airy scramble (grade 2, pushing 3 maybe), by slanting left up an obvious ram...

Summit Comment
Slieve Foye: Irish Gabbro!
IainT 3 days ago.
Gabbro is one of the roughest and most frictiony rocks around and is superb for scrambling on, as all visitors to the Skye Cuiilin across the water know. I never realised until yesterday that Slie...

  
Track
Pic du Canigou
David-Guenot 3 days ago.
Ascending Catalogna's sacred mountain from the hamlet of Los Masos de Vallmanya, on well-marked trails, with two breaks walk, Len: 24.8km, Climb: 1853m, Area: France, Occitanie ()

  
Summit Comment
Clermont Carn: Easy but a great view.
IainT 3 days ago.
If you drive up the road this has to be a contender for the easiest summit in Ireland, but it's well worth doing for the superb view. Wicklow to Donegal, with the Meath lowlands spread out like a ...

Track
Ramble on Ireland's Eye
wicklore 4 days ago.
A short walk on Ireland's Eye in September 2015. Original plan to visit earlier in the summer was thwarted by a huge f... walk, Len: 2.6km, Climb: 80m, Area: Ireland's Eye, Dublin Islands (Ireland) I

  
Summit Comment
Seanadh Bhéara: Access
sandman 4 days ago.
To answer the query raised by TommyV for at the time to facilitate parking on a narrow road and not wishing to park on the N59 i parked beside the farm yard with a view to access the hill via the ...

  
Forum: General
Windphone project destroyed
wicklore 3 days ago.
The Wind Phone art project in the Dublin Mountains has been destroyed http://jrnl.ie/3547797 . It appears to be a strong statement by those against the idea

Summit Comment
Ireland's Eye: Screams were heard, getting fainter and fainter…
wicklore 4 days ago.
Ireland's Eye is situated about 1.5kms north of Howth Harbour. In Celtic times it was called Eria’s Island and then Erin’s Island. The Norse called it Erin’s Ey and this became Ireland’s Eye. (Ey ...

  
Track
Pic de Cagire Loop
David-Guenot 4 days ago.
A great loop walk in one of my favourite areas in the Pyrenees, which should have hardly taken more than 4h30 hadn't I m walk, Len: 11.8km, Climb: 892m, Area: France, Occitanie ()

  
Summit Summary
Carhoo Hill: Dingle Eask Tower
Collaborative entry Last edit by: aidand 5 days ago.
This is a modest climb, but with wonderful views. Take the road out of Dingle towards Ventry. After about a mile turn left at a sign marked 'Hanlon's handbags'. There is a parking area with a hut ...


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